| Alfredo Gutierrez |
BARRIOZONA: What’s going on in Arizona, what’s happening, mostly with the
marches?
Alfredo Gutierrez: I think it is happening nationally. The time has arrived for this sort
of building of pressure in the immigrant community, and the children of immigrants,
where something needs to be done. You can take cumulative abuse up to a point and
then you have to do something, you have to manifest it in some way. So it is a
marches?
Alfredo Gutierrez: I think it is happening nationally. The time has arrived for this sort
of building of pressure in the immigrant community, and the children of immigrants,
where something needs to be done. You can take cumulative abuse up to a point and
then you have to do something, you have to manifest it in some way. So it is a
combination of that, and 4437. HR4437 just stunned a lot of people into action; two sets of people: the ones who
thought, ‘well we’ll let someone else do it, it’s going to work itself out;’ and, a lot of Mexican-Americans who
thought (I’m talking about third and fourth generation of Mexican-Americans—Chicanos,) ‘well it doesn’t impact me;
it’s their problem.’ All of the sudden, 4437 comes by and it’s about as a hateful piece of legislation since the
Japanese Internment. 4437 passed in October of 2005. It was a slow birth for people to finally figure it out, for
both immigrant and Chicano, and when it hit, a national unity took place—we had to do something about it. The
impact is not only that we need immigrant rights, but we also need healthcare and decent salaries. All of that
needs to be combined into one single movement.
thought, ‘well we’ll let someone else do it, it’s going to work itself out;’ and, a lot of Mexican-Americans who
thought (I’m talking about third and fourth generation of Mexican-Americans—Chicanos,) ‘well it doesn’t impact me;
it’s their problem.’ All of the sudden, 4437 comes by and it’s about as a hateful piece of legislation since the
Japanese Internment. 4437 passed in October of 2005. It was a slow birth for people to finally figure it out, for
both immigrant and Chicano, and when it hit, a national unity took place—we had to do something about it. The
impact is not only that we need immigrant rights, but we also need healthcare and decent salaries. All of that
needs to be combined into one single movement.
BZ: Did you see this coming?
AG: Yes and no. For two years now, I do a radio show. I have been saying to people
in Spanish: “no se desesperen; va a llegar el día.” (Do not become impatient; the day
will come.) I have been talking about the magnitude of demographics, the numbers,
from all advantage points—birth rates, primary and secondary school youngsters—
there is a demographic tidal wave coming, that ultimately is going to change this
debate. It was this year, next year, I don’t know when, but that demographic tidal
wave could not be denied. I think what spurred it even faster was 4437. That’s what
made everybody say: ‘we have to resolve this now,’ even the other side. And our
friends Anglos, people in Congress like Senator McCain and Senator Craig of Idaho,
they are with us. From all sides, 4437 served as a beacon.
I’ll tell you what I did not see coming: I couldn’t believe that Congress of the United
States with the help of the White House could do anything as hateful as 4437. That
came as a shock to me.
AG: Yes and no. For two years now, I do a radio show. I have been saying to people
in Spanish: “no se desesperen; va a llegar el día.” (Do not become impatient; the day
will come.) I have been talking about the magnitude of demographics, the numbers,
from all advantage points—birth rates, primary and secondary school youngsters—
there is a demographic tidal wave coming, that ultimately is going to change this
debate. It was this year, next year, I don’t know when, but that demographic tidal
wave could not be denied. I think what spurred it even faster was 4437. That’s what
made everybody say: ‘we have to resolve this now,’ even the other side. And our
friends Anglos, people in Congress like Senator McCain and Senator Craig of Idaho,
they are with us. From all sides, 4437 served as a beacon.
I’ll tell you what I did not see coming: I couldn’t believe that Congress of the United
States with the help of the White House could do anything as hateful as 4437. That
came as a shock to me.
BZ: You participated in the Chicano Movement. Is this gearing up to be a movement or is it already a movement?
AG: It is a movement. Whether it becomes a movement beyond immigrant rights is the issue. We need immigrant
rights and we intend to win that, but I hope it doesn’t end there. We also need healthcare. Those are our kids out
there who are not insured to preponderance. I don’t know if it is the vast majority, but I think so. We need decent
salaries. Our people can not live on five or six dollars; that’s just not possible. So we need to get that changed,
and we need decent working conditions. So I hope it is a movement beyond that. And finally, it’s a movement
about education. Wow!, our educators—I believe—have done a fabulous job. People who have always kept their
eye on the ball are teachers. They have always understood. This is why we had the “Flores” decision, the big fight,
you know the Governor (Janet Napolitano) is one day with us, and one day is against, but one area where she is
always with us is in education.
The bill we are supporting, the McCain-Kennedy bill, says that before you can legalize, you have to speak English.
We need adult education in a way that doesn’t exist today, perhaps never has existed before, so that our people
will learn to speak English. We need adult education at community colleges, high schools. It provides a great
opportunity to bring the family together; you have the kids going to school and the parents going to school. We
need to teach our people English right away, otherwise they will not be able to take advantage of the legalization
program.
BZ: How would you legislate immigration?
AG: In today’s climate, I think the McCain-Kennedy bill is about as good as we are going to get. I would hope that
we could have a more compassionate kind of debate, but we can’t, or a more understanding one but we can’t. The
bill process says you have to fill-out the application and declare yourself guilty of a crime. Then you have to pay a
fine of $1000 on the spot –it is a fine. Then you have to pay your own background check; it will probably run you
about $50 to $75. At that point you will receive a provisional right to work. It’s a provisional right, and it is
revocable if there is a period of 45 days where you are not working. So you can’t be out of work. That aspect of
this bill is to me one of the most negative, because it allows manipulation by the employer again: “I’ll fire you.” It’s
not as bad as it is today, but nonetheless, it still allows someone to misuse it. In approximately six years, you will
be able to turn that into a residential permanent status. Now, during those six years, you can’t have a felony, you
can’t have DUI’s, and there is one clause in the law that doesn’t change and it exists today: domestic violence
period closes the door. There is no appeal and that stays in the bill; that’s the law today. So during the six-year
course, if you commit a felony and you are convicted of it, you are done for; you have to get out of here, or you are
going to be deported.
In the past, you only had to know a few good phrases in English and answer a few questions, but now you have
to know English, you don’t have to speak it like a native; you have to have a good fluency. At that time, when you
make that application you have to pay another $1000, in order to go from your provisional status to your
permanent resident status. You then have to wait another five years before you can apply for citizenship. So your
path to citizenship takes eleven years. This is a pretty tough bill. The second part of this bill is border security. It
doubles the number of agents, it quadruples the number of deportation, and it adds a thousand more cells. This is
not an easy bill, but it is the best we can do. We believe twelve million people are going to say here is my
thousand dollars. This bill also incorporates the “Dream Act” and the Agricultural Workers Adjustment Act.
BZ: What are your thoughts on Elias Bermudez?
AG: I believe in redemption, and Elias’ faults and background past are pretty public. It’s an unfortunate past. What
I say to people is: let’s welcome him, if and when he shows otherwise, and he hasn’t done that yet. Elias is clearly
a charismatic guy, an articulate guy, and certainly a smart guy; that is not an issue. The issue is the sincerity of his
commitment, and it’s complicated because of what he does, un preparador (document preparer). And he is the first
one to admit that he is going to profit financially from what he is advocating, and that makes a lot of people
suspicious. I tell people, let’s welcome him, but if he does it again, we’ll throw him out, as we would with anybody
else. If I start putting my head in people’s pockets, then I’m going to be thrown out. We use the same standard
for Elias as we would for everyone else.
BZ: Why have you become involved?
AG: I have been involved in this issue for thirty years. I testified in the Simpson-Mazzoli bill in 1985. I was involved
and active in that reform and I along with others, predicted the disastrous outcome of that reform. It wasn’t going
to work because it simply did not have plans for the future. It allowed employers to simply wink and break the law,
and as long as they could wink and break the law, market forces would dictate. That is people need manpower,
and they want to pay less, and that has been indeed what has happened. I was called the union organizer when I
was 19 years old. I did whatever they told me; that was a long time ago, so I have been at this a very long time.
Also, I have been involved in business. We’re far from rich, but I can care for my family, which gives me the luxury
and the opportunity to stay active and try to mobilize and motivate our folks.
I think there is another reason: its family continued involvement, we never broke the thread; we are part of this
larger Hispanic community and we celebrate the fact that it grows everyday. It’s more diverse; it’s our community. I
am proud to be an American, but that is to say, I am both. So to me, I see the abuses and I have this opportunity
to speak out, but I think that the greatest injustice today in this country is the treatment of the undocumented.
They are our brothers and sisters, that’s who they are. I think there’s another reason; a lot of people want to get
involved, but they don’t speak Spanish well. It’s not their fault. The conditions until maybe twenty years ago, we
hustled the Spanish-speaking, and a lot of families chose to walk away from it, because they viewed it as the only
way to survive, economically and in other ways. That’s why they felt they could prepare their kids best by never
speaking Spanish. So you have one fine set of leadership who wants to desperately get involved, pero como
tienen vergüenza (since they are embarrased,) they don’t know how to approach it. Steve Gallardo doesn’t speak
Spanish well, but I have to admire the guy. He is in with both feet, fighting it out. We have to say to that
generation to come back, we’re one, we’re one. We’re one people.
BZ: Who is considered the leader in this movement, is there one?
AG: If there is anybody at the national level who has had the most impact, it is Eliseo Medina from SEIU. And,
perhaps, followed by Arturo Rodriguez, the head of United Farm Workers. It’s those two guys, but Eliseo primarily.
On a local level, I have been advocating this for I don’t know how long; Inmigrantes Sin Fronteras formed about a
year ago, they are significant; Unidos Mano a Mano do not have a radio show, but they are probably the largest
organization in all of this. There are just a lot of people locally. Danny Ortega, he’s been our attorney. Linda
Herrera, she’s a major advocate. Hay tanta gente (there is just so many people.)
BZ: Give us a quick summary of your own philosophy and something about yourself that not too many people
know?
AG: Stay in the struggle for justice, maintain true values. One of the greatest impacts in my life was Cesar Chavez,
who I knew and worked with. His selflessness is something I can never achieve, but it was an example to every
life.
AG: It is a movement. Whether it becomes a movement beyond immigrant rights is the issue. We need immigrant
rights and we intend to win that, but I hope it doesn’t end there. We also need healthcare. Those are our kids out
there who are not insured to preponderance. I don’t know if it is the vast majority, but I think so. We need decent
salaries. Our people can not live on five or six dollars; that’s just not possible. So we need to get that changed,
and we need decent working conditions. So I hope it is a movement beyond that. And finally, it’s a movement
about education. Wow!, our educators—I believe—have done a fabulous job. People who have always kept their
eye on the ball are teachers. They have always understood. This is why we had the “Flores” decision, the big fight,
you know the Governor (Janet Napolitano) is one day with us, and one day is against, but one area where she is
always with us is in education.
The bill we are supporting, the McCain-Kennedy bill, says that before you can legalize, you have to speak English.
We need adult education in a way that doesn’t exist today, perhaps never has existed before, so that our people
will learn to speak English. We need adult education at community colleges, high schools. It provides a great
opportunity to bring the family together; you have the kids going to school and the parents going to school. We
need to teach our people English right away, otherwise they will not be able to take advantage of the legalization
program.
BZ: How would you legislate immigration?
AG: In today’s climate, I think the McCain-Kennedy bill is about as good as we are going to get. I would hope that
we could have a more compassionate kind of debate, but we can’t, or a more understanding one but we can’t. The
bill process says you have to fill-out the application and declare yourself guilty of a crime. Then you have to pay a
fine of $1000 on the spot –it is a fine. Then you have to pay your own background check; it will probably run you
about $50 to $75. At that point you will receive a provisional right to work. It’s a provisional right, and it is
revocable if there is a period of 45 days where you are not working. So you can’t be out of work. That aspect of
this bill is to me one of the most negative, because it allows manipulation by the employer again: “I’ll fire you.” It’s
not as bad as it is today, but nonetheless, it still allows someone to misuse it. In approximately six years, you will
be able to turn that into a residential permanent status. Now, during those six years, you can’t have a felony, you
can’t have DUI’s, and there is one clause in the law that doesn’t change and it exists today: domestic violence
period closes the door. There is no appeal and that stays in the bill; that’s the law today. So during the six-year
course, if you commit a felony and you are convicted of it, you are done for; you have to get out of here, or you are
going to be deported.
In the past, you only had to know a few good phrases in English and answer a few questions, but now you have
to know English, you don’t have to speak it like a native; you have to have a good fluency. At that time, when you
make that application you have to pay another $1000, in order to go from your provisional status to your
permanent resident status. You then have to wait another five years before you can apply for citizenship. So your
path to citizenship takes eleven years. This is a pretty tough bill. The second part of this bill is border security. It
doubles the number of agents, it quadruples the number of deportation, and it adds a thousand more cells. This is
not an easy bill, but it is the best we can do. We believe twelve million people are going to say here is my
thousand dollars. This bill also incorporates the “Dream Act” and the Agricultural Workers Adjustment Act.
BZ: What are your thoughts on Elias Bermudez?
AG: I believe in redemption, and Elias’ faults and background past are pretty public. It’s an unfortunate past. What
I say to people is: let’s welcome him, if and when he shows otherwise, and he hasn’t done that yet. Elias is clearly
a charismatic guy, an articulate guy, and certainly a smart guy; that is not an issue. The issue is the sincerity of his
commitment, and it’s complicated because of what he does, un preparador (document preparer). And he is the first
one to admit that he is going to profit financially from what he is advocating, and that makes a lot of people
suspicious. I tell people, let’s welcome him, but if he does it again, we’ll throw him out, as we would with anybody
else. If I start putting my head in people’s pockets, then I’m going to be thrown out. We use the same standard
for Elias as we would for everyone else.
BZ: Why have you become involved?
AG: I have been involved in this issue for thirty years. I testified in the Simpson-Mazzoli bill in 1985. I was involved
and active in that reform and I along with others, predicted the disastrous outcome of that reform. It wasn’t going
to work because it simply did not have plans for the future. It allowed employers to simply wink and break the law,
and as long as they could wink and break the law, market forces would dictate. That is people need manpower,
and they want to pay less, and that has been indeed what has happened. I was called the union organizer when I
was 19 years old. I did whatever they told me; that was a long time ago, so I have been at this a very long time.
Also, I have been involved in business. We’re far from rich, but I can care for my family, which gives me the luxury
and the opportunity to stay active and try to mobilize and motivate our folks.
I think there is another reason: its family continued involvement, we never broke the thread; we are part of this
larger Hispanic community and we celebrate the fact that it grows everyday. It’s more diverse; it’s our community. I
am proud to be an American, but that is to say, I am both. So to me, I see the abuses and I have this opportunity
to speak out, but I think that the greatest injustice today in this country is the treatment of the undocumented.
They are our brothers and sisters, that’s who they are. I think there’s another reason; a lot of people want to get
involved, but they don’t speak Spanish well. It’s not their fault. The conditions until maybe twenty years ago, we
hustled the Spanish-speaking, and a lot of families chose to walk away from it, because they viewed it as the only
way to survive, economically and in other ways. That’s why they felt they could prepare their kids best by never
speaking Spanish. So you have one fine set of leadership who wants to desperately get involved, pero como
tienen vergüenza (since they are embarrased,) they don’t know how to approach it. Steve Gallardo doesn’t speak
Spanish well, but I have to admire the guy. He is in with both feet, fighting it out. We have to say to that
generation to come back, we’re one, we’re one. We’re one people.
BZ: Who is considered the leader in this movement, is there one?
AG: If there is anybody at the national level who has had the most impact, it is Eliseo Medina from SEIU. And,
perhaps, followed by Arturo Rodriguez, the head of United Farm Workers. It’s those two guys, but Eliseo primarily.
On a local level, I have been advocating this for I don’t know how long; Inmigrantes Sin Fronteras formed about a
year ago, they are significant; Unidos Mano a Mano do not have a radio show, but they are probably the largest
organization in all of this. There are just a lot of people locally. Danny Ortega, he’s been our attorney. Linda
Herrera, she’s a major advocate. Hay tanta gente (there is just so many people.)
BZ: Give us a quick summary of your own philosophy and something about yourself that not too many people
know?
AG: Stay in the struggle for justice, maintain true values. One of the greatest impacts in my life was Cesar Chavez,
who I knew and worked with. His selflessness is something I can never achieve, but it was an example to every
life.
| BARRIOZONA |
| Bilingual Community Expression Published by the Hispanic Institute of Social Issues |
| Beyond a Movement |
| Interview by Yolie Hernandez Photographs by Eduardo Barraza |
a BARRIOZONA exclusive