| BARRIOZONA |
| Bilingual Community Expression Published by the Hispanic Institute of Social Issues |
| Gerald Burns, an experienced immigration attorney, talks about the controversy about the G-28 form, notarios, "activists", and the risks and consequences immigrants face when putting themselves on their hands. |
| Interview and photos by Eduardo Barraza |
| Immigration, A Movement of People tied up in the Law |
| Immigration attorney Gerald Burns |
A BARRIOZONA Interview
| Hispanic Institute of Social Issues © 2006-2007 All rights reserved. webmaster@hisi.org |
This goes to show you that immigrants are always looking for something positive, always looking for something that
is going to be helpful. Immigrants seem to be living in a lot of fear, and there’s a lot of miscommunication out there
and immigrants are fairly desperate right now but they are always looking for something positive and the G-28 is
not going to be something positive.
What we are seeing in terms of risks and consequences of people when they work with notarios (public notaries)
and people are always coming to us on a daily basis that have been involved with notarios that have handled their
cases before we have —and I say that literally, on a daily basis. Here in Arizona notarios are a very big problem.
First, notarios are not attorneys in Arizona; notarios are individuals who have a notary public license. By State law,
they are prohibited from accepting fees of more than two dollars to witness a signature. So they are not notaries in
the Spanish sense of being an attorney from a Latin America country, where they are often called notarios. So here
in the United States they are notary publics, they witness signatures; they are not to be document preparers, in
particular for immigration purposes. In Arizona it is a felony to practice law without a license and particularly
immigration law, so notarios should understand that but also the community should understand that immigration is
considered to be one of the most complex and difficulties areas of law. The law, the regulations, the memorandums,
the policy advisories, the practice memos, these are things that trained attorneys and educated attorneys have
access to; immigration attorneys, not notarios. So we would encourage the immigrant community to be careful
about who you have represent you in the immigration process.
Number one: be aware of the fact that being pulled over or any exposure to any local law enforcement could place
you in the deportation proceedings; that is the number one thing confronting immigrants right now in Arizona.
Number two: be aware of the fact that notartios are causing a lot of damage; they’re not licensed attorneys; if you
hire a notario to handle your case you can end in deportation procedures. Even though you are an undocumented
person or you may have overstayed your visa, you entered legally, you do have rights, so if you are pulled over, or
you are brought to the attention of immigration, it is important to let them know who you are, but it is also your
right to tell them that you wish to remain silent. I don’t want to sign anything, I would like to see an attorney, I
would like to go before a judge, and you have that right. And I think most importantly for the immigrants in Arizona
to be aware of the fact that you are valuable, we understand how valuable you are, you have a voice. Whatever
the mean spirited things that are going on in Arizona cannot take that away. It is often said that immigrants built
America, well, immigrants now continue to build America; this is staying America, and that’s not going to change.
One of the things that strikes me about doing immigration —I’ve been doing immigration for twelve years now.
Immigration is a social movement of people, it is migration, it is Mother Nature moving people around the globe, and
Latinos are migrating to the United States from Mexico, South America, Central America and they are coming this
way. But what they don’t realize a lot of times is that immigration is tied up in the law, it is a huge complex body of
laws and regulations that govern how people come to the United States, how they can stay in the United States,
what relief they may have. Now, I can assure you that “activists”, people that say they are “activists” —that is the
scariest word in immigration today— an activist today in immigration is not the same as when Cesar Chavez was an
activist who cared about the farm workers back in the seventies and almost laid down his life for people; that was
an activist. Now we have “activists” who go on the radio for thirty minutes and pretend to be immigration experts.
It is extremely (dangerous), it is not only demeaning to immigration attorneys like myself, but it’s demeaning to you
the immigrant community. They are looking at you as if you are a commodity that does not have a brain, that will
pay anybody who is in the radio for thirty minutes and pretends to know something about immigration law and they
will insult you by making you think that immigration is simple, that immigration is just filling out forms.
That is something that has to change within the culture of the people, you have to demand that you should be
respected more than that. Another part of the problem is the media, the radio stations, the TV stations, the
magazines, “TV y Más”. All the little things that advertise for notarios and activists and at the same time there right
next to you have an ad for an immigration notario next to an ad for a woman selling beer; we have to change that,
that immigration is very serious and should be left for the serious professionals. Immigrants need to value
themselves more than that. Someone just mentioned to me that if you are going to have a baby you want to go to
a doctor not to a midwife, not to someone who says, just come down laid on the table and we’ll take care of that.
That’s the way they used to do it but now you have the choice, you can go to a professional, and you can have a
baby safely. Immigrants are being socially, morally killed by these notarios and these activists that don’t have their
best interests at heart.
People always ask me what’s so complicated about filling out some forms to apply for an immigration benefit. Well,
as an immigration attorney, I can tell you that filling out the forms is about this much of what we do. What’s
important to realize is that if you are applying for a benefit and you are filling out a form every single answer has a
legal consequence. For example, you fill your name out wrong, you misspell your last name, or you don’t do your
address correctly, you might not get your notice or your interview; if you put a wrong answer down, that is the
difference between success and failure, that’s often the difference between being able to get your benefits and
maybe being deported. Just bare in mind when you hear people say that they are document preparers, to prepare
a document is one percent of what immigration law is about. Anybody can fill a document; that’s not what we
charge people for. It’s the representation, it’s the deal with the legal consequences of your answers on forms, your
history, your immigration history, your eligibility, the obstacles, your relief, you need a waiver; these are the things
that notarios and activists, all those people, will not understand.
Aside from being an attorney, that’s not enough. In my personal view I think the thing that’s most important,
immigration is always changing, the laws are always changing, the regulations are changing, policy memorandums
is always coming out that explain the vastly confusing areas of immigration law. A good immigration attorney is
going to be specifically trained in the area of immigration law. One of the factors you might want to look for is —I tell
immigrants— you should ask questions of the people that you go see. I love it when people ask are you a member
of the American Immigration Lawyers Association. Being a member of that organization gives me access to the most
recent documentation, changes in the law, what’s going on with immigration, it gives me resources I can use that
will better help me help immigrants. If you are going to be an advocate for immigrants you at least owe to them to
be informed about what’s going on a daily basis with immigration law.
For example, just to become an attorney you have to take an average of three years of law school, you have to
graduate from law school, you have to study and pass a Bar exam so that you have your law license. You are
required to take classes yearly to have continuing legal education credits so you can maintain your law license. I
have people who say to me “I am Mexican, I know the experience; I know what it takes to help people with
immigration.” That’s illogical, it is insulting, but is not insulting to me as an immigration attorney; it is to the
immigrants that you are worthy that little to them, that they believe that they can help you.
I take my job very seriously; we want be on the cutting edge of what’s new, what’s going on in my field, and I can
assure the immigrant community that notarios and activists will simply not be able to do that. And I want to close by
saying that in some ways, notarios and activists are my best friends, and to my office, because we get referrals
from them on a daily basis —not from them— but from the people that they hurt. I have drawers of cases that
started out with notarios and they ended with us because they need their cases fixed. So it’s its not fair for
immigrants to have to go through that much pain, that one day they might be able to get their cases fixed, and a
lot of time the damages are irreversible, and they are not going to get their cases fixed.
is going to be helpful. Immigrants seem to be living in a lot of fear, and there’s a lot of miscommunication out there
and immigrants are fairly desperate right now but they are always looking for something positive and the G-28 is
not going to be something positive.
What we are seeing in terms of risks and consequences of people when they work with notarios (public notaries)
and people are always coming to us on a daily basis that have been involved with notarios that have handled their
cases before we have —and I say that literally, on a daily basis. Here in Arizona notarios are a very big problem.
First, notarios are not attorneys in Arizona; notarios are individuals who have a notary public license. By State law,
they are prohibited from accepting fees of more than two dollars to witness a signature. So they are not notaries in
the Spanish sense of being an attorney from a Latin America country, where they are often called notarios. So here
in the United States they are notary publics, they witness signatures; they are not to be document preparers, in
particular for immigration purposes. In Arizona it is a felony to practice law without a license and particularly
immigration law, so notarios should understand that but also the community should understand that immigration is
considered to be one of the most complex and difficulties areas of law. The law, the regulations, the memorandums,
the policy advisories, the practice memos, these are things that trained attorneys and educated attorneys have
access to; immigration attorneys, not notarios. So we would encourage the immigrant community to be careful
about who you have represent you in the immigration process.
Number one: be aware of the fact that being pulled over or any exposure to any local law enforcement could place
you in the deportation proceedings; that is the number one thing confronting immigrants right now in Arizona.
Number two: be aware of the fact that notartios are causing a lot of damage; they’re not licensed attorneys; if you
hire a notario to handle your case you can end in deportation procedures. Even though you are an undocumented
person or you may have overstayed your visa, you entered legally, you do have rights, so if you are pulled over, or
you are brought to the attention of immigration, it is important to let them know who you are, but it is also your
right to tell them that you wish to remain silent. I don’t want to sign anything, I would like to see an attorney, I
would like to go before a judge, and you have that right. And I think most importantly for the immigrants in Arizona
to be aware of the fact that you are valuable, we understand how valuable you are, you have a voice. Whatever
the mean spirited things that are going on in Arizona cannot take that away. It is often said that immigrants built
America, well, immigrants now continue to build America; this is staying America, and that’s not going to change.
One of the things that strikes me about doing immigration —I’ve been doing immigration for twelve years now.
Immigration is a social movement of people, it is migration, it is Mother Nature moving people around the globe, and
Latinos are migrating to the United States from Mexico, South America, Central America and they are coming this
way. But what they don’t realize a lot of times is that immigration is tied up in the law, it is a huge complex body of
laws and regulations that govern how people come to the United States, how they can stay in the United States,
what relief they may have. Now, I can assure you that “activists”, people that say they are “activists” —that is the
scariest word in immigration today— an activist today in immigration is not the same as when Cesar Chavez was an
activist who cared about the farm workers back in the seventies and almost laid down his life for people; that was
an activist. Now we have “activists” who go on the radio for thirty minutes and pretend to be immigration experts.
It is extremely (dangerous), it is not only demeaning to immigration attorneys like myself, but it’s demeaning to you
the immigrant community. They are looking at you as if you are a commodity that does not have a brain, that will
pay anybody who is in the radio for thirty minutes and pretends to know something about immigration law and they
will insult you by making you think that immigration is simple, that immigration is just filling out forms.
That is something that has to change within the culture of the people, you have to demand that you should be
respected more than that. Another part of the problem is the media, the radio stations, the TV stations, the
magazines, “TV y Más”. All the little things that advertise for notarios and activists and at the same time there right
next to you have an ad for an immigration notario next to an ad for a woman selling beer; we have to change that,
that immigration is very serious and should be left for the serious professionals. Immigrants need to value
themselves more than that. Someone just mentioned to me that if you are going to have a baby you want to go to
a doctor not to a midwife, not to someone who says, just come down laid on the table and we’ll take care of that.
That’s the way they used to do it but now you have the choice, you can go to a professional, and you can have a
baby safely. Immigrants are being socially, morally killed by these notarios and these activists that don’t have their
best interests at heart.
People always ask me what’s so complicated about filling out some forms to apply for an immigration benefit. Well,
as an immigration attorney, I can tell you that filling out the forms is about this much of what we do. What’s
important to realize is that if you are applying for a benefit and you are filling out a form every single answer has a
legal consequence. For example, you fill your name out wrong, you misspell your last name, or you don’t do your
address correctly, you might not get your notice or your interview; if you put a wrong answer down, that is the
difference between success and failure, that’s often the difference between being able to get your benefits and
maybe being deported. Just bare in mind when you hear people say that they are document preparers, to prepare
a document is one percent of what immigration law is about. Anybody can fill a document; that’s not what we
charge people for. It’s the representation, it’s the deal with the legal consequences of your answers on forms, your
history, your immigration history, your eligibility, the obstacles, your relief, you need a waiver; these are the things
that notarios and activists, all those people, will not understand.
Aside from being an attorney, that’s not enough. In my personal view I think the thing that’s most important,
immigration is always changing, the laws are always changing, the regulations are changing, policy memorandums
is always coming out that explain the vastly confusing areas of immigration law. A good immigration attorney is
going to be specifically trained in the area of immigration law. One of the factors you might want to look for is —I tell
immigrants— you should ask questions of the people that you go see. I love it when people ask are you a member
of the American Immigration Lawyers Association. Being a member of that organization gives me access to the most
recent documentation, changes in the law, what’s going on with immigration, it gives me resources I can use that
will better help me help immigrants. If you are going to be an advocate for immigrants you at least owe to them to
be informed about what’s going on a daily basis with immigration law.
For example, just to become an attorney you have to take an average of three years of law school, you have to
graduate from law school, you have to study and pass a Bar exam so that you have your law license. You are
required to take classes yearly to have continuing legal education credits so you can maintain your law license. I
have people who say to me “I am Mexican, I know the experience; I know what it takes to help people with
immigration.” That’s illogical, it is insulting, but is not insulting to me as an immigration attorney; it is to the
immigrants that you are worthy that little to them, that they believe that they can help you.
I take my job very seriously; we want be on the cutting edge of what’s new, what’s going on in my field, and I can
assure the immigrant community that notarios and activists will simply not be able to do that. And I want to close by
saying that in some ways, notarios and activists are my best friends, and to my office, because we get referrals
from them on a daily basis —not from them— but from the people that they hurt. I have drawers of cases that
started out with notarios and they ended with us because they need their cases fixed. So it’s its not fair for
immigrants to have to go through that much pain, that one day they might be able to get their cases fixed, and a
lot of time the damages are irreversible, and they are not going to get their cases fixed.
One of the things that people are always asking us is what’s going on in Arizona with immigration law. I think the
better question is what’s not going on in Arizona. Quite a lot as a border state immigration is a hot button topic
being debated from both sides of the issue furiously on a daily basis. One of the things that is interesting, is that
what’s going on in Arizona doesn’t seem to be the sentiment maybe nationwide; it seems to be very mean spirited
here in Arizona. From a professional standpoint, probably the most serious issue in immigration is how local law
enforcement appears to be enforcing immigration laws. If you are an undocumented person or you are someone
who came legally but has maybe overstayed or you are here without authorization, routine traffic stops, arrest, any
exposure to law enforcement could mean that you would be placed in the deportation proceedings.
This didn’t used to be the case; there was always this strict separation of local law enforcement and then federal
immigration enforcement. If you are brought to the attention of law enforcement for any reason, if you go to jail, if
you have a conviction, chances are you will be detained by immigration officials. If that happens, be prepared that
you most likely not be jailed but will be transferred to immigration custody and then you will have to fight for your
rights before an immigration judge.
Another issue that has popped recently is this controversy over the G-28 form. What is the form? The form is very
simply a confidentiality privacy form. For example, as an immigration attorney, if someone comes in and hires my
firm, hires me as their attorney, I have to be able to speak for them, I have to be able to obtain information for
them. So we have them sign a G-28 —and the immigration service requires a G-28— so then I can be recognized as
their attorney. Now, no legal rights attached just by having a signed G-28. There is nothing that is going to protect
you from deportation by simply adding a G-28 in your back pockets signed by whoever.
better question is what’s not going on in Arizona. Quite a lot as a border state immigration is a hot button topic
being debated from both sides of the issue furiously on a daily basis. One of the things that is interesting, is that
what’s going on in Arizona doesn’t seem to be the sentiment maybe nationwide; it seems to be very mean spirited
here in Arizona. From a professional standpoint, probably the most serious issue in immigration is how local law
enforcement appears to be enforcing immigration laws. If you are an undocumented person or you are someone
who came legally but has maybe overstayed or you are here without authorization, routine traffic stops, arrest, any
exposure to law enforcement could mean that you would be placed in the deportation proceedings.
This didn’t used to be the case; there was always this strict separation of local law enforcement and then federal
immigration enforcement. If you are brought to the attention of law enforcement for any reason, if you go to jail, if
you have a conviction, chances are you will be detained by immigration officials. If that happens, be prepared that
you most likely not be jailed but will be transferred to immigration custody and then you will have to fight for your
rights before an immigration judge.
Another issue that has popped recently is this controversy over the G-28 form. What is the form? The form is very
simply a confidentiality privacy form. For example, as an immigration attorney, if someone comes in and hires my
firm, hires me as their attorney, I have to be able to speak for them, I have to be able to obtain information for
them. So we have them sign a G-28 —and the immigration service requires a G-28— so then I can be recognized as
their attorney. Now, no legal rights attached just by having a signed G-28. There is nothing that is going to protect
you from deportation by simply adding a G-28 in your back pockets signed by whoever.
I think this is a very dangerous situation right
now, because having someone sign a G-28, and
if you are stopped or become exposed to an
immigration officials, you show them this; they
know what that form is, and they are going to
know that you may be trying to —this person,
the immigrant may not know it— but they may
be constricted to misrepresenting themselves,
we have something before the immigration
service that they don’t really know. It should be
clear that the G-28 is not a form of relief on
deportation; it is a confidentiality privacy form
that prevents other people from getting
information about your case that is filed with
the government. I would recommend people
that if you hear of people offering G-28’s for a
fee, that’s a scam, and that will not help you if
you come to the attention of an immigration
official.
now, because having someone sign a G-28, and
if you are stopped or become exposed to an
immigration officials, you show them this; they
know what that form is, and they are going to
know that you may be trying to —this person,
the immigrant may not know it— but they may
be constricted to misrepresenting themselves,
we have something before the immigration
service that they don’t really know. It should be
clear that the G-28 is not a form of relief on
deportation; it is a confidentiality privacy form
that prevents other people from getting
information about your case that is filed with
the government. I would recommend people
that if you hear of people offering G-28’s for a
fee, that’s a scam, and that will not help you if
you come to the attention of an immigration
official.
| "There is nothing that is going to protect you from deportation by simply adding a G-28 in your back pockets signed by whoever." Photo: BARRIOZONA |
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