| BARRIOZONA |
| Salvador Reza |
| A Long Term Struggle |
Photograph by Jonathan E. Hernandez / BARRIOZONA
| Interview by Eduardo Barraza THIRD (and last) PART |
some people, it is going to become worse for others. Even if it is possible for some people to be included in the
famous immigration reform —if it is approved, in the first place— many of them are going to be automatically deemed
as “criminals.” We don’t think the way out of this can be found in that direction; of course, we are going to put up a
fight to include everyone that can be included in the immigration reform. At the same time, and for our own benefit,
we need to arrive to a greater sense of awareness, to reach a point where people know their history, so they can
know where they come from, and be, in a given moment, in the same position as Joe Kennedy, the Western
Shoshone Native American man who on March 27, 2007, traveled to Guatemala and entered this country on his
Western Shoshone passport (not the official U.S. passport), because he recognizes himself as a Native American,
and because his own people recognize themselves as Native Americans; they were able to travel all the way to
Guatemala with their Tribe’s passport to attend the III Continental Summit of Indigenous Nations and Pueblos of
Abya Yala, and return, and then go to Europe using the same passport, and return. Now, we are not at that level —
I am talking about the Mexican people, the Chicano people, those who have had their memory stolen. We are not at
that level because, how can we go before the immigration authorities and tell them: “you know what?, I am Native
American,” when the individual doesn’t even see himself as one, you see?, when you don’t even recognize it. For
us, that is the struggle that we have in the long term. In the short term, education is a priority, to achieve
awareness at all levels possible, and to try to preserve the opportunities that have opened up, like the Macehualli
Day Labor Center, the businesses that have been opened through the street taco vendors, the Tonatierra building
that we have; to begin and continue with the Peace and Dignity Journeys that will resume in 2008, and the
international links with South America —I called it “America” because that is the common term, but in reality it is
“Abya Yala”, which is the name of our Continent—; all these achievements where having links with the Peoples and
among the same Peoples is going to change the national states. If we are not linked to those Peoples, the national
states aren’t going to change. For example, thanks to these links among the Peoples, —when all the Native
American Peoples attend, represented through the United Nations Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues— and
when they come before the Papal Nuncio, and the Papal Nuncio tells them that the Papal Bull Inter Caetera is
abolished, in other words, that the Vatican has revoked it and it is not valid any longer, that is a change, isn’t it?; at
least on the legal level. The Papal Bull wouldn’t have been abolished without the pressure these Peoples applied.
That’s what needs to be done. Here in Arizona, we need to work at the “ant’s level,” because we have to be
working in the neighborhoods, to continue working with the Calpullis —even if the families don’t call themselves
Calpullis—, people assemblies, or however we may want to call them, produce the same effect and work toward the
same goal; where instead of trying to have, as I mentioned earlier in this interview, massive mobilizations of
people, we need to do the work in each neighborhood and manage to organize —the basic organization that is
needed—, so we can later have —for example, when something is going to be submitted for a vote, or when we’re
voting for a candidate—, to have at least the network to be able to say, “you know what?, in the city of Mesa, we
have to drive Russell Pearce out of office,” and that there would be quite a bit of people to drive him out, or to
another politician like Jim Weiers, or someone like State Representative Ben Miranda —why not say it— so we can at
least “hold his feet to the fire” and tell him: “how can you be voting (in favor) of these initiatives, when you claim to
be on our side?” That is what the people need to do: to avoid being used, manipulated or bossed around, like
politicians like to do to them.
BARRIOZONA: Is it easier for people to be followers of a so called leader that gives them “the formula” and who
tells them, “you just follow me,” than to be willing to work at the family and neighborhood levels that you talk
about?
SALVADOR REZA: Look, it depends on the type of work you do. People become mobilized because there is a void,
and when there is a void, a voice in the void is heard. The void is the lack of real organization, and the
organizations that we have are media-centered; they’re media-centered either by the same political powers of the
City of Phoenix, the various non-profit organizations, or even organizations such as Inmigrantes sin Fronteras
(Immigrants without Borders), that manage the media very well. Therefore, they control the message. Since the
void is there, that voice is the one that makes the call. Nevertheless, the true work is going to be the work that is
done in the neighborhoods. Besides that, if there’s a mobilization, and since there’s nothing else available out
there, people are going to become involved, because they are desperate. Many people tell me: “you know, I am
going to participate in the march,” so I ask them, “why are you going to participate,” and they answer me, “because
there has to be a change in the immigration reform,” so I ask them again, “do you know what is being demanded by
that march?,” and they reply to me, “well, to achieve an immigration reform,” so once again, I ask them, “Okay,
regarding the guest workers program, do you specifically know what this program is all about, do you know workers
would need to be tied to an employer?”, so they ask me, “what do you mean I have to be tied to an employer?”, so
I explain to them, “only if an employer requests you, you will be allowed to come; if no employer request you, you
won’t be able to come; do you know that? And they don’t, they don’t know about that. So regarding these issues,
leaders don’t make enough information available for the people; it is handled with ambiguity. This is like handling
democracy, isn’t it? —everybody is pro-democracy— but they ignore what “democracy” means, and they ignore it
because the democracy they’re familiar with is like the nationalism, is like the mother country, and that’s what
happens. I think that individual leaders within the system that we operate are going to continue having an effect,
and will continue to mobilize people —let’s say 100 thousand people—, but when the demonstration is over, these
100 thousand people go back to their homes and continue in their same routine, and they don’t become organized
in their neighborhoods, they don’t become organized in their schools, they don’t become organized in their churches
—perhaps churches are somewhat more organized, because they already have an organizational system. Then, for
example, when school personnel are mistreating their children, or the children are not being taught properly, they
do not go to put pressure at the school, to the superintendent or to the teacher so they can change their behavior.
There is where the changes are done or aren’t, and as a result, —for example, by now— we should have an
organized people, so Tom Horne, Arizona’s Superintendent of Public Instruction, wouldn’t be able to implement the
“English Only” policy, which is even more damaging for us than many other issues, because they say, regarding the
children, “sure, they can attend school because the Supreme Court establishes that,” but once in the school, if they
speak Spanish, they are punished; they also punish the teacher if they speak Spanish. Shortly after, on another
instance, if someone goes to a City’s department requesting some information, personnel ask people for their
documents that prove their legal status. They ask, “are you sure you are a legal resident in the United States?”,
because they don’t speak to them in English. So the “English Only,” and all these are matters that can be changed,
if we were organized. If we are not organized, then a voting takes place there in the Legislature, and the
Legislature always wins. That’s why we need to be sophisticated, and by this I don’t mean that many organizations
are not sophisticated, there are having a great deal of sophistication, such as the organization called “We Are
America,” and the unions; there’s much sophistication, but even they don’t come from the base up, but the
opposite. Of course, they stopped the initiative that Legislators wanted to approve, the plan to make police officers
function as immigration agents. “We Are America,” with the help of the unions, stopped that initiative. They
challenged the votes, they challenged the signatures; they played the same game legislators play, and they
stopped it. If that initiative would have become a law, we’d be in a much worse situation than we are now. But the
City itself made known that they made a deal with Homeland Security to train ten cops and ten immigration agents,
and those ten cops are going to eventually become one hundred, one thousand, three thousand; hortly after, all
police officers are going to be enforcing immigration laws. Another change in tactics the police made, is that they do
not let go of drivers who have a bogus Mexican driver license, when in the past they didn’t care whether it was
legal or not; but now they are verifying that; if the Mexican license is bogus, they are going to automatically charge
the driver with possession of fraudulent documents, they’ll put the driver in jail without bail; they don’t allow them
to be bailed out anymore; then they just deport them, as simple as that. So they are utilizing the same tactics used
by ICE, but they don’t call themselves immigration agents. So in sum, if we are not organized, we won’t be able to
stop these practices.
BARRIOZONA: Are we better or worse in the year 2007, than when Salvador Reza, the child, was swatted three
times in kindergarten for speaking Spanish?
SALVADOR REZA: We are worse now, because we are being swatted invisibly.
famous immigration reform —if it is approved, in the first place— many of them are going to be automatically deemed
as “criminals.” We don’t think the way out of this can be found in that direction; of course, we are going to put up a
fight to include everyone that can be included in the immigration reform. At the same time, and for our own benefit,
we need to arrive to a greater sense of awareness, to reach a point where people know their history, so they can
know where they come from, and be, in a given moment, in the same position as Joe Kennedy, the Western
Shoshone Native American man who on March 27, 2007, traveled to Guatemala and entered this country on his
Western Shoshone passport (not the official U.S. passport), because he recognizes himself as a Native American,
and because his own people recognize themselves as Native Americans; they were able to travel all the way to
Guatemala with their Tribe’s passport to attend the III Continental Summit of Indigenous Nations and Pueblos of
Abya Yala, and return, and then go to Europe using the same passport, and return. Now, we are not at that level —
I am talking about the Mexican people, the Chicano people, those who have had their memory stolen. We are not at
that level because, how can we go before the immigration authorities and tell them: “you know what?, I am Native
American,” when the individual doesn’t even see himself as one, you see?, when you don’t even recognize it. For
us, that is the struggle that we have in the long term. In the short term, education is a priority, to achieve
awareness at all levels possible, and to try to preserve the opportunities that have opened up, like the Macehualli
Day Labor Center, the businesses that have been opened through the street taco vendors, the Tonatierra building
that we have; to begin and continue with the Peace and Dignity Journeys that will resume in 2008, and the
international links with South America —I called it “America” because that is the common term, but in reality it is
“Abya Yala”, which is the name of our Continent—; all these achievements where having links with the Peoples and
among the same Peoples is going to change the national states. If we are not linked to those Peoples, the national
states aren’t going to change. For example, thanks to these links among the Peoples, —when all the Native
American Peoples attend, represented through the United Nations Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues— and
when they come before the Papal Nuncio, and the Papal Nuncio tells them that the Papal Bull Inter Caetera is
abolished, in other words, that the Vatican has revoked it and it is not valid any longer, that is a change, isn’t it?; at
least on the legal level. The Papal Bull wouldn’t have been abolished without the pressure these Peoples applied.
That’s what needs to be done. Here in Arizona, we need to work at the “ant’s level,” because we have to be
working in the neighborhoods, to continue working with the Calpullis —even if the families don’t call themselves
Calpullis—, people assemblies, or however we may want to call them, produce the same effect and work toward the
same goal; where instead of trying to have, as I mentioned earlier in this interview, massive mobilizations of
people, we need to do the work in each neighborhood and manage to organize —the basic organization that is
needed—, so we can later have —for example, when something is going to be submitted for a vote, or when we’re
voting for a candidate—, to have at least the network to be able to say, “you know what?, in the city of Mesa, we
have to drive Russell Pearce out of office,” and that there would be quite a bit of people to drive him out, or to
another politician like Jim Weiers, or someone like State Representative Ben Miranda —why not say it— so we can at
least “hold his feet to the fire” and tell him: “how can you be voting (in favor) of these initiatives, when you claim to
be on our side?” That is what the people need to do: to avoid being used, manipulated or bossed around, like
politicians like to do to them.
BARRIOZONA: Is it easier for people to be followers of a so called leader that gives them “the formula” and who
tells them, “you just follow me,” than to be willing to work at the family and neighborhood levels that you talk
about?
SALVADOR REZA: Look, it depends on the type of work you do. People become mobilized because there is a void,
and when there is a void, a voice in the void is heard. The void is the lack of real organization, and the
organizations that we have are media-centered; they’re media-centered either by the same political powers of the
City of Phoenix, the various non-profit organizations, or even organizations such as Inmigrantes sin Fronteras
(Immigrants without Borders), that manage the media very well. Therefore, they control the message. Since the
void is there, that voice is the one that makes the call. Nevertheless, the true work is going to be the work that is
done in the neighborhoods. Besides that, if there’s a mobilization, and since there’s nothing else available out
there, people are going to become involved, because they are desperate. Many people tell me: “you know, I am
going to participate in the march,” so I ask them, “why are you going to participate,” and they answer me, “because
there has to be a change in the immigration reform,” so I ask them again, “do you know what is being demanded by
that march?,” and they reply to me, “well, to achieve an immigration reform,” so once again, I ask them, “Okay,
regarding the guest workers program, do you specifically know what this program is all about, do you know workers
would need to be tied to an employer?”, so they ask me, “what do you mean I have to be tied to an employer?”, so
I explain to them, “only if an employer requests you, you will be allowed to come; if no employer request you, you
won’t be able to come; do you know that? And they don’t, they don’t know about that. So regarding these issues,
leaders don’t make enough information available for the people; it is handled with ambiguity. This is like handling
democracy, isn’t it? —everybody is pro-democracy— but they ignore what “democracy” means, and they ignore it
because the democracy they’re familiar with is like the nationalism, is like the mother country, and that’s what
happens. I think that individual leaders within the system that we operate are going to continue having an effect,
and will continue to mobilize people —let’s say 100 thousand people—, but when the demonstration is over, these
100 thousand people go back to their homes and continue in their same routine, and they don’t become organized
in their neighborhoods, they don’t become organized in their schools, they don’t become organized in their churches
—perhaps churches are somewhat more organized, because they already have an organizational system. Then, for
example, when school personnel are mistreating their children, or the children are not being taught properly, they
do not go to put pressure at the school, to the superintendent or to the teacher so they can change their behavior.
There is where the changes are done or aren’t, and as a result, —for example, by now— we should have an
organized people, so Tom Horne, Arizona’s Superintendent of Public Instruction, wouldn’t be able to implement the
“English Only” policy, which is even more damaging for us than many other issues, because they say, regarding the
children, “sure, they can attend school because the Supreme Court establishes that,” but once in the school, if they
speak Spanish, they are punished; they also punish the teacher if they speak Spanish. Shortly after, on another
instance, if someone goes to a City’s department requesting some information, personnel ask people for their
documents that prove their legal status. They ask, “are you sure you are a legal resident in the United States?”,
because they don’t speak to them in English. So the “English Only,” and all these are matters that can be changed,
if we were organized. If we are not organized, then a voting takes place there in the Legislature, and the
Legislature always wins. That’s why we need to be sophisticated, and by this I don’t mean that many organizations
are not sophisticated, there are having a great deal of sophistication, such as the organization called “We Are
America,” and the unions; there’s much sophistication, but even they don’t come from the base up, but the
opposite. Of course, they stopped the initiative that Legislators wanted to approve, the plan to make police officers
function as immigration agents. “We Are America,” with the help of the unions, stopped that initiative. They
challenged the votes, they challenged the signatures; they played the same game legislators play, and they
stopped it. If that initiative would have become a law, we’d be in a much worse situation than we are now. But the
City itself made known that they made a deal with Homeland Security to train ten cops and ten immigration agents,
and those ten cops are going to eventually become one hundred, one thousand, three thousand; hortly after, all
police officers are going to be enforcing immigration laws. Another change in tactics the police made, is that they do
not let go of drivers who have a bogus Mexican driver license, when in the past they didn’t care whether it was
legal or not; but now they are verifying that; if the Mexican license is bogus, they are going to automatically charge
the driver with possession of fraudulent documents, they’ll put the driver in jail without bail; they don’t allow them
to be bailed out anymore; then they just deport them, as simple as that. So they are utilizing the same tactics used
by ICE, but they don’t call themselves immigration agents. So in sum, if we are not organized, we won’t be able to
stop these practices.
BARRIOZONA: Are we better or worse in the year 2007, than when Salvador Reza, the child, was swatted three
times in kindergarten for speaking Spanish?
SALVADOR REZA: We are worse now, because we are being swatted invisibly.
| A Long Term Struggle |
| In this third and last interview, Salvador Reza analyzes the difficult social and labor landscape approaching, talks about education as a foundation of historical affirmation, and insists that the immigrant struggle won’t be won with massive mobilizations but instead through neighborhood level organizing. |
BARRIOZONA: Based on the
current immigration context in
Arizona —and elsewhere in the
country— what are the challenges
that we can expect in the
immediate future?
SALVADOR REZA: Basically, within
the context of the United States, it
is very difficult to picture how the
situation can improve, because
even if the situation improves for
current immigration context in
Arizona —and elsewhere in the
country— what are the challenges
that we can expect in the
immediate future?
SALVADOR REZA: Basically, within
the context of the United States, it
is very difficult to picture how the
situation can improve, because
even if the situation improves for
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