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Phoenix, Arizona – BARRIOZONA: Based on the current immigration context in Arizona —and elsewhere in the country—
what are the challenges that we can expect in the immediate future?
SALVADOR REZA: Basically, within the context of the United States, it is very difficult to picture how the situation can
improve, because even if the situation improves for some people, it is going to become worse for others. Even if it is
possible for some people to be included in the famous immigration reform —if it is approved, in the first place— many of
them are going to be automatically deemed as “criminals.” We don’t think the way out of this can be found in that direction;
of course, we are going to put up a fight to include everyone that can be included in the immigration reform. At the same
time, and for our own benefit, we need to arrive to a greater sense of awareness, to reach a point where people know their
history, so they can know where they come from, and be, in a given moment, in the same position as Joe Kennedy, the
Western Shoshone Native American man who on March 27, 2007, traveled to Guatemala and entered this country on his
Western Shoshone passport (not the official U.S. passport), because he recognizes himself as a Native American, and
because his own people recognize themselves as Native Americans; they were able to travel all the way to Guatemala
with their Tribe’s passport to attend the III Continental Summit of Indigenous Nations and Pueblos of Abya Yala, and
return, and then go to Europe using the same passport, and return. Now, we are not at that level —I am talking about the
Mexican people, the Chicano people, those who have had their memory stolen. We are not at that level because, how can
we go before the immigration authorities and tell them: “you know what?, I am Native American,” when the individual
doesn’t even see himself as one, you see?, when you don’t even recognize it. For us, that is the struggle that we have in
the long term. In the short term, education is a priority, to achieve awareness at all levels possible, and to try to preserve
the opportunities that have opened up, like the Macehualli Day Labor Center, the businesses that have been opened
through the street taco vendors, the Tonatierra building that we have; to begin and continue with the Peace and Dignity
Journeys that will resume in 2008, and the international links with South America —I called it “America” because that is the
common term, but in reality it is “Abya Yala”, which is the name of our Continent—; all these achievements where having
links with the Peoples and among the same Peoples is going to change the national states. If we are not linked to those
Peoples, the national states aren’t going to change. For example, thanks to these links among the Peoples, —when all
the Native American Peoples attend, represented through the United Nations Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues—
and when they come before the Papal Nuncio, and the Papal Nuncio tells them that the Papal Bull Inter Caetera is
abolished, in other words, that the Vatican has revoked it and it is not valid any longer, that is a change, isn’t it?; at least on
the legal level. The Papal Bull wouldn’t have been abolished without the pressure these Peoples applied. That’s what
needs to be done. Here in Arizona, we need to work at the “ant’s level,” because we have to be working in the
neighborhoods, to continue working with the Calpullis —even if the families don’t call themselves Calpullis—, people
assemblies, or however we may want to call them, produce the same effect and work toward the same goal; where
instead of trying to have, as I mentioned earlier in this interview, massive mobilizations of people, we need to do the work
in each neighborhood and manage to organize —the basic organization that is needed—, so we can later have —for
example, when something is going to be submitted for a vote, or when we’re voting for a candidate—, to have at least the
network to be able to say, “you know what?, in the city of Mesa, we have to drive Russell Pearce out of office,” and that there
would be quite a bit of people to drive him out, or to another politician like Jim Weiers, or someone like State
Representative Ben Miranda —why not say it— so we can at least “hold his feet to the fire” and tell him: “how can you be
voting (in favor) of these initiatives, when you claim to be on our side?” That is what the people need to do: to avoid being
used, manipulated or bossed around, like politicians like to do to them.
BARRIOZONA: Is it easier for people to be followers of a so called leader that gives them “the formula” and who tells them,
“you just follow me,” than to be willing to work at the family and neighborhood levels that you talk about?
SALVADOR REZA: Look, it depends on the type of work you do. People become mobilized because there is a void, and
when there is a void, a voice in the void is heard. The void is the lack of real organization, and the organizations that we
have are media-centered; they’re media-centered either by the same political powers of the City of Phoenix, the various
non-profit organizations, or even organizations such as Inmigrantes sin Fronteras (Immigrants without Borders), that
manage the media very well. Therefore, they control the message. Since the void is there, that voice is the one that makes
the call. Nevertheless, the true work is going to be the work that is done in the neighborhoods. Besides that, if there’s a
mobilization, and since there’s nothing else available out there, people are going to become involved, because they are
desperate. Many people tell me: “you know, I am going to participate in the march,” so I ask them, “why are you going to
participate,” and they answer me, “because there has to be a change in the immigration reform,” so I ask them again, “do
you know what is being demanded by that march?,” and they reply to me, “well, to achieve an immigration reform,” so once
again, I ask them, “Okay, regarding the guest workers program, do you specifically know what this program is all about, do
you know workers would need to be tied to an employer?”, so they ask me, “what do you mean I have to be tied to an
employer?”, so I explain to them, “only if an employer requests you, you will be allowed to come; if no employer request
you, you won’t be able to come; do you know that? And they don’t, they don’t know about that. So regarding these issues,
leaders don’t make enough information available for the people; it is handled with ambiguity. This is like handling
democracy, isn’t it? —everybody is pro-democracy— but they ignore what “democracy” means, and they ignore it because
the democracy they’re familiar with is like the nationalism, is like the mother country, and that’s what happens. I think that
individual leaders within the system that we operate are going to continue having an effect, and will continue to mobilize
people —let’s say 100 thousand people—, but when the demonstration is over, these 100 thousand people go back to
their homes and continue in their same routine, and they don’t become organized in their neighborhoods, they don’t
become organized in their schools, they don’t become organized in their churches —perhaps churches are somewhat
more organized, because they already have an organizational system. Then, for example, when school personnel are
mistreating their children, or the children are not being taught properly, they do not go to put pressure at the school, to the
superintendent or to the teacher so they can change their behavior. There is where the changes are done or aren’t, and as
a result, —for example, by now— we should have an organized people, so Tom Horne, Arizona’s Superintendent of Public
Instruction, wouldn’t be able to implement the “English Only” policy, which is even more damaging for us than many other
issues, because they say, regarding the children, “sure, they can attend school because the Supreme Court establishes
that,” but once in the school, if they speak Spanish, they are punished; they also punish the teacher if they speak Spanish.
Shortly after, on another instance, if someone goes to a City’s department requesting some information, personnel ask
people for their documents that prove their legal status. They ask, “are you sure you are a legal resident in the United
States?”, because they don’t speak to them in English. So the “English Only,” and all these are matters that can be
changed, if we were organized. If we are not organized, then a voting takes place there in the Legislature, and the
Legislature always wins. That’s why we need to be sophisticated, and by this I don’t mean that many organizations are not
sophisticated, there are having a great deal of sophistication, such as the organization called “We Are America,” and the
unions; there’s much sophistication, but even they don’t come from the base up, but the opposite. Of course, they stopped
the initiative that Legislators wanted to approve, the plan to make police officers function as immigration agents. “We Are
America,” with the help of the unions, stopped that initiative. They challenged the votes, they challenged the signatures;
they played the same game legislators play, and they stopped it. If that initiative would have become a law, we’d be in a
much worse situation than we are now. But the City itself made known that they made a deal with Homeland Security to
train ten cops and ten immigration agents, and those ten cops are going to eventually become one hundred, one
thousand, three thousand; hortly after, all police officers are going to be enforcing immigration laws. Another change in
tactics the police made, is that they do not let go of drivers who have a bogus Mexican driver license, when in the past they
didn’t care whether it was legal or not; but now they are verifying that; if the Mexican license is bogus, they are going to
automatically charge the driver with possession of fraudulent documents, they’ll put the driver in jail without bail; they don’t
allow them to be bailed out anymore; then they just deport them, as simple as that. So they are utilizing the same tactics
used by ICE, but they don’t call themselves immigration agents. So in sum, if we are not organized, we won’t be able to
stop these practices.
BARRIOZONA: Are we better or worse in the year 2007, than when Salvador Reza, the child, was swatted three times in
kindergarten for speaking Spanish?
SALVADOR REZA: We are worse now, because we are being swatted invisibly.
Copyright © 2007 Hispanic Institute of Social Issues
Grassroots Journalism
www.barriozona.com
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PART III - The organizer analyzes the difficult social and labor landscape, talks about education as a
foundation of historical affirmation, and insists that the immigrant struggle will be won through
neighborhood-level organizing.
By Eduardo Barraza
BARRIOZONA
June 16, 2007
Salvador Reza: A Long-Term Struggle